The new TL2 has been a bit of a star this week. It’s handsome, fast and produces great results. But not everyone is queuing up to buy one.
Tongue-in-cheek though it may be, Amy Davies’s Amateur Photographer essay in what else you can buy for the cost of a new Leica TL2 and a single lens (a nice round £3,000 as it happens) strikes a chord. Especially when you factor in the extra £340 for a viewfinder…. Did I mention viewfinder before?
As Amy points out, you could fill your boots with Panasonic or Olympus m4/3 gear, assembly a very potent Fuji X system or even grab a full-frame Sony and one tasty lens for the same sort of money. It’s tempting, of course, but anyone who seriously includes Leica in their shortlist has a rather different perspective. Reality flies out of the wallet as soon as it is breached.
When it comes to pricing, Leica indeed lives in a parallel universe, but it remains a rather tempting universe populated by great design, tactile pleasures and high residual values. On Monday I’ll be looking deeper into Leica’s development of the TL2 and the future prospects for for the APSC system.
What do you think of AP’s proposition?
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What you can’t buy for the cost of a Leica TL2.
Well apparently, you can’t lock your TL2 display permanently. Lock the screen once it is switched on and powered up, switch it off and switch it back on and take pot luck…
… Could be in Program mode, could be in Shutter priority, you could be on 1.5MP JPG’s with no DNG, you could be on finger focus and snap.
Roll-up, roll-up.
The more I look at digital cameras, the more I yen for a decent new film camera and leave snapshottery to a little X100 or something, they seem to be very reliable.
That’s right and I’m not sure how it could have slipped through after all the pre-release testing. I assume Jono, at least, highlighted this as a fault. No doubt it will be rectified in a firmware update in the near future. But it is an obvious thing that should never have got to production.
It has been slipping through since 2014 Mike, and it has caused me irritation several times. At one point I thought there was a fault with the camera, but then I realised that variable behaviour is a feature.
It is entirely possible to take simplicity to the point of stupidity.
Sorry I thought you were referring to the Inability to lock the screen/viewfinder preference which Jono highlighted in his test. I must say I haven’t noticed the behaviour you mention by I will be sure to check it out next week when I pick up the TL2 from Leica.
This not unique to the TL2 Mike, I have the T (Basher) and I have read the instruction manual for the TL2 and the T and they are both the same.
You can only lock the screen after it has been switched on, it has no memory that it was previously locked. The instructions do claim that settings remain the same between power cycles, but I have seen this not to be the case far too many times to believe it.
It can happen just by touching the screen when it is on.
The things that I mention in my previous comment have all actually happened to my camera. I think it is in program mode, then look and it is in Shutter mode. Or more annoying is the output that resets itself to no Raw files or very small JPG’s. There are three custom modes, but they only control some of the settings.
There is a significant difference between an iPhone interface and a Leica T interface, namely all the icons on an iPhone relate to different applications, the phone settings are under one lockable menu. All of the icons on the T relate to the camera’s settings, so we should be able to set and forget, and we can’t.
In my view the T camera is a bit beguiling in that it produces great looking files as a camera that is new in the hand, but give it a few weeks and the camera still feels like it is new in the hand, nothing becomes familiar.
I reckon that the behaviour that Jonathan Slack highlights regarding the viewfinder/screen is the same effect as I am describing. That effect is that there is no way to make the camera remember something between power cycles.
Does this mean a new Leica X will be coming? I really enjoy my X typ 113..
Dave, I haven’t given much thought to the possibility of another X-style fixed lens camera. They were all good in their way, especially the X Vario, but all were condemned ultimately by that irritating lack of viewfinder. If the X, X2 or XV had had viewfinders they would have sold in greater numbers and could well still be in production. So I have no idea about the future for Leica’s fixed-lens APSC range. I think it more likely we will see a traditional version of the TL2 with viewfinder to appeal more to the majority of fans.
It does not have much to do with the new Leica….Well, it sort of does; but, although I generally shoot film Leicas nowadays, I do still occasionally drop in to see what is happening with the digital world. Today I have both M7 and my Leica IID (converted IA) sitting on my desk; it occurs to me…..there is really nothing I can do with one of the cameras that I cannot do with the other. One wonders how the industry survived such a prolonged period of stagnation in camera performance.
That’s very true, Wayne. Only earlier today I was chatting with William Fagan who has been experimented with an 80-year-old Brownie and a 100-year-old Kodak Vest Pocket Camera. The Brownie especially is still capable of surprisingly good results. The point with film, really, is that whether M7 or M3 *or even IA as you mention, you should get the same results, film for film and lens for lens. There has been a lot talked about digital obsolescence and this is used as an excuse to constantly update. I happen to think that sensor technology has now reached a high enough level to ensure that modern digitals are capable of serving for a long time. The M8 and M9 are good examples of this. Now we have reached this sort of level playing field in image quality I suspect the supposed built-in obsolescence will become less of a problem. The Leica M is likely to be a major beneficiary of this. Already photographers recognise that the M9 and, even, the M8 are still capable of producing great pictures even ten or more years on. It will be interesting to see where we go from now.
Thanks Mike. I will be reporting here in due course on my outings with cameras that are 100, 90 and eighty years old with very little adjustment. The aperture (look like distance but they are actually aperture adjustments) markings of the Vest Pocket Kodak which go as follows 1 ‘portrait’/ ‘near view’, 2 ‘average view’, 3 ‘distant view’ and 4 ‘clouds’/’marine’ might not be that difficult to manage on a touch screen. The Kodak manual from 1912 refers to an ‘auto-time scale’ for the shutter adjustments which are 1/25th B, T and 1/50th. For T it recommends a tripod and 1/2 second for gray, 3/4 second for ‘dull’ and 1 second or more for ‘very dull’. Could we match this today with a camera that goes into auto tripod mode when such low shutter speeds are required? I understand fully that some people want fully featured cameras today that do everything for them other than making a cup of tea. We could, however, borrow some of the older concepts in photography and mould them into 21st century modes to make photography easier than it ever has been . Oh I forgot, we have already done this with things called smartphones!
As for the AP piece it is basically a comparison between systems from a consumerist perspective. My advice is that anyone looking at these systems should tour their local dealers to see which of the systems handle best from a personal handling point of view. They should also bring along a card to see what the output looks like, but that is pretty much the same for all makes nowadays.
William
Ordered a TL2 from Ffordes (last silver model in stock … black bodies were sold out) and arrives tomorrow … but was not a case of what else could I buy for the ££ … was based on a decision to dumb down other cameras/lenses via commission sales sent to Ffordes thus funding the new TL2. I was impressed by the TL2’s published images e.g. Jono Slack’s and his review … also Thorsten Overgaard’s review in which he mentions the TL2’s improvements compared to the original Leica T 701. Overall the TL2 will not cost me any new ££ … more a case of shifting / swapping existing camera hardware including the original T 701 body. Plan to use the TL2 for some special projects and take advantage of the upgraded sensor’s 24 megapixels and the 1.5x crop factor … interesting legacy lenses experiments beckon.
Regards
dunk
Regards
dunk
That’s interesting, Dunk. I agree that most of us don’t work on the basis of what else could be bought for the same money; if you set your sights on a Leica that’s what you usually end up with. Buying on price alone can lead to disappointment, not least when it comes to resale.
Mike
Well…a very interesting subject…and I have been living Amy’s alternative world for quite some time, with a Sony A7Rii with a couple of brilliantly tasty FF primes, the Zeiss 55 1/8 and the Zeiss 35mm2.8…and an A6300 with the Zeiss 16-70/4…and a couple of other "thangs" (as some say here in The States…and they are WONDERFULLY CAPABLE…so why am I pulled so strongly toward the TL2…oh, and did I mention that both Sonys have a built-in EVF…why is that pull so strong??? I do not know, but I fear that I will succumb one day.
One thing I will definitely need to do, if I’m going to be rationally responsible about it (a frightening thought to a GAShead), is an IQ comparison between the Leica Vario Elmar 18-56 and the Sony 16-70. I am a zoom guy much/most of the time, so that will be an essential test. And what if the Zeiss is just as good or even better? It has a broader focal length range after all. Will I still be pulled by the TL2? I do not know but eventually I will do the test using GAShead friends’ equipment once their TL2 arrives. Then maybe I’ll be able to answer.
BTW, I love your reports (I learned of you from my dear friend/architect colleague Anthony Vidler) and in pursuit of various holyish grails of intensity and lightness, I have acquired both a Leica R Vario Elmar 35-70/f4 macro…and an E49 Tri-Elmar…both at excellent prices, which I use with adapters on both Sonys. The image character is deep and rich for both. The Vario with its adapter is too heavy; the Tri is great but I sure wish I could add a "quad" focal length at 70mm…but alas. The manual everything of both is a great novelty, not experienced since childhood, but a welcomed added discipline that slows me down, makes everything a bit more thoughtful and reduces the wild profligacy of shooting.
Cheers!
Alan
Alan Chimacoff
Princeton, NJ USA
http://www.chimacoff.com
Alan, Thanks for your input on this. Yes, of course, I know Tony Vidler from here, although we haven’t met — perhaps we will rectify that on his next visit to London. I’m glad you enjoy reading Macfilos and any contributions are always welcomed.
Mike