Home Cameras/Lenses Leica Leica CL: The future for the APS-C system

Leica CL: The future for the APS-C system

44

What is the future for Leica’s APS-C line-up and, in particular, the CL? Rumours of an upgraded version, let’s call it the CL2, have been rife for the past year. And many enthusiasts were confident such a camera would arrive in 2021. However, the scent is getting cold, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see the M11 before the CL2. Indeed, we have to ask whether there will ever be a CL2.

The CL is a great little camera, and, in many ways, the TL2 is even more attractive. It is certainly unique in its construction and operation. Both versions of Leica’s APS-C bodies are compact, light and extremely competent.

The CL still sells steadily, if in relatively small numbers, and there has recently been more interest in used models. The demand seems to be there. I noticed this recently when the stock of used cameras at Red Dot in London fell suddenly after several months of relatively full shelves. Of course, this could have been directly linked to the rising demand for all cameras following the lifting of Covid regulations, but it proves there is still a market for Leica APS-C cameras.

Unfortunately, the CL and TL2 do not appear to get much tender loving care from Wetzlar. The emphasis seems to have switched to the full-frame cameras and lenses, and little has been said or done about APS-C. As an example, there has been zero activity on the TL lens front in recent years. On the other hand, though, Sigma has put some new life into the system since the arrival of the L-mount alliance, and that’s a very welcome development.

The CL still has a solid following among Leica users, and it would be an enormous pity if the CL2 does not appear soon. Many of my friends in the Leica community regard the smaller, lighter body as a perfect carry around camera. It can even use L-mount full-frame lenses if you can cope with the extra weight, and the good old M lenses perform really well on this camera.

I’m not the only Leica commentator raising this question. It’s a regular topic, and I was particularly pleased to see Patrick Leong’s assessment of the CL on his excellent FindingRange website. Read it in full here.

What do you think? Is there still room for an improved APS-C system in Leica’s catalogue? Or should the company let the CL fall by the wayside and leave the market to Fuji, Sony and the others? Would you welcome a new CL2, perhaps incorporating IBIS which could put new life into the existing lens lineup?

All images by Mike Evans


Join our community and play an active part in the future of Macfilos: This site is run by a group of volunteers and dedicated authors around the world. It is supported by donations from readers who appreciate a calm, stress-free experience, with courteous comments and an absence of advertising or commercialisation. Why not subscribe to the thrice-weekly newsletter by joining our mailing list? Comment on this article or, even, write your own. And if you have enjoyed the ride so far, please consider making a small donation to our ever-increasing running costs.


44 COMMENTS

  1. Yes. I would like to see a version 2. Possibly with a bit of ibis. Thats more important to me than weather sealing. Take away the Red dot. Make a P version. Thats about it. Im waiting.

  2. Probably the most official confirmation that we will ever get from Leica that the TL2 is dead… On the Leica US webpage under Compatible Lenses it now says: “The Leica TL2 supports the basic functions of Panasonic and Sigma L-Mount lenses, but is excluded from further L-Mount related updates.

  3. A pity Leica users are often waiting for something new rather than enjoying what’s still a joy.
    Watching still a lot of Fujifilm X-pro1 reviews and praise, for instance. While try to look for a new CL review nowadays. No way.

  4. I’m still loving my CL, and would be tempted by the right CL2.

    I shoot other systems too, which certainly beat the CL if you only look at the spec sheet. But while my CL lacks some of the headline-grabbing features found in my other cameras, what it does, it does very well. Unless I need specific functions, I am more likely to grab the CL. It just works for me.

    Would IBIS be nice? Yes, but not a deal breaker.
    Would weather sealing be nice? Yes, but only if the lenses are too.
    Would an articulated screen be nice? Yes, but again, not a deal breaker.
    Would I like the wandering AF point fixed? Yes, but I want it fixed in my CL.

    • Weather sealing is really to get SL shooters on board I feel. As Leica makes no dedicated teleconverters for the SL the CL kind of acts as the official Leica teleconverter… and it is also a cheaper and smaller backup body for SL shooters but most SL shooters in return expect IBIS, weather sealing, a joystick, back button focusing, etc. the same features they have in the SL2. I expect because of that to see some or most of these features make their way in the CL2 as well. On IBIS, releasing a camera in 2021 without IBIS would be commercial suicide IMHO. It is probably also the (only) feature that would convince most current CL owners to upgrade.

  5. My first Leica was the film CL. It was a great camera despite problems with the meter, but Leitz of course abandoned the CL even though Minolta came up with an automatic version in its CLE. Now I’m worried that history is about to repeat itself with Leica abandoning the CL. I’d love to buy a CL2 with ibis (I currently shoot with a Fuji X-E3).

    • Leica didn’t make the film CL/CLE, Minolta made it for them. It was abandoned because it was too successful and cannibalized the sales of the Leica M5, which was an interesting and innovative camera but not very appealing to the market overall.
      The digital CL still gets support in 2021, the TL2 hasn’t been supported since about 2018 and isn’t part of the L mount alliance website anymore. Which is fine, because the TL cameras were more of an experiment than anything and the CL is much more inline with Leica’s overall style and approach. The TL was cool but nowhere near as good to use for photography as the current M, Q, SL, and CL cameras.
      A CL2, if done right would be an amazing camera.

      • About the T(L2), it is not only cool, unlike the more conventional CL it is a pretty unique camera, and I can think of no reason why Leica could not have further developed it, the CL is indeed more performant, but again, give the TL2 a built-in EVF and auto focus on par with the CL, and it will be a strong contender. About the CL, I still think/hope there will be a CL2 but 4 years without new bodies or lenses and only a very occasional firmware upgrade (does anybody even know what the last one did?) is quite frankly not sufficient to keep a platform going in these times of digital hyping and You Tube influencing. Leica needs to do more but APS-C is clearly not a priority for them. I see a lot of people online already giving up on the CL2 and making other choices, it is unfortunately very understandable… For me personally, I have 8 Leica bodies of which 3 are APS-C, if Leica kills APS-C I will give up on Leica altogether and sell the other 5 bodies as well…

  6. Great comments but for me the CL was a compromise- I sold it eventually in favor of the new SL2S but remain committed to the TL2 – rugged and clean lines with an adjustable evf if needed.

    • Strangely enough, I decided to sell the CL and use the TL2 for the time being. If there is a CL2, I will probably buy it. If not, it means the APS-C system is on notice and probably not worth persevering with. I do hope Leica do produce a CL2, although I share your enthusiasm for the TL2.

      • If there is a CL2 I will probably also buy it but if it comes without any new lenses the question remains whether it is worth persevering with. Sure, you can use smaller Sigma FF lenses but even then a camera like the Sony A7c (half the price of the CL and you can use the same Sigma FF lenses) probably makes a lot more sense…

    • The TL2 is definitely a more unique and iconic camera. I really wish Leica would have taken this concept rather than throwing a second APS-C body into the mix.

  7. I think the number of replies to this article says it all really. I’m sure the interest is there for a CL2, especially now there are so many L lenses available (and some of the Sigma ones are reasonably small).
    I know I would buy one. Of course it would depend on what it had, I think the obvious requirements are:
    Weather Sealing
    IBIS
    New Sensor
    Better EVF
    All the best
    Jono

    • Thanks, Jono. Did you notice that many of the responses highlighted the notorious floating focus point and the inability to set a fixed centre focus?

      John Shingleton recently raised the issue in relation to his Q2, which also has no option to fix the central “focus-and-recompose” field.

      I know you views on this. After all, we’ve discussed them at length. So perhaps you could remind us why you think such an option is a bad idea and why Leica seems to ignore the many calls for a menu option.

    • Thanks Jono – this is very reassuring. When you’ve “married” the lens system the last thing you want is the sense that this has become a dead end.

    • For me it’s clear. The best way to go is cl2 as full frame – as q2 with interchangeable lenses. Such camera will fine because:

      1) could be used in crop mode with TL lenses
      2) all l mount lenses, including small sigmas
      3) perfect to a be “evf M” camera platform for m lenses

  8. I love my CL, both in size and (especially) picture quality. The 35 is among the best lenses I’ve ever used, and, as pointed out above, the L-Mount alliance is giving us new options. M adapters open yet another huge world.

    But there’s some left-field stuff, too, like the new TTArtisans APS-C 50mm 1.2. Less than $100 (!), manual focus, native L-Mount, and surprisingly great image quality.

    My wish list mirrors others’ requests: IBIS, upgraded viewfinder, option for waist-level shooting, etc. I’m not sure weather sealing is necessary, but wouldn’t turn it down. Don’t make it too much larger.

    Good site and good comments. Thanks, everyone!

  9. Small and light are hallmarks of the CL, both body and lenses, allowing a generous collection of the latter, and their camera, to be stowed in a remarkably small bag. This is an excellent system by any standards, but stands apart from other APS-C cameras for having such a clean and unfussy button/dial interface and for its simple and clear menu system, unlike most other offerings. I do hope that Leica continues with this excellent part of their portfolio and brings us a CL2.

  10. I think if Leica has plans for a CL2, it has probably put them on hold while they bolster sales of the SL2. Just consider the webinars and recent marketing effort to boost sales for ‘big brother’. It was against this background that I wrote an article for my website https://david2008.photium.com/my-way-with-the-leica
    Its primary purpose was to help new owners of a Leica CL get the very best from the cameras. Judging by the interest aroused from my modest effort, it has even rekindled interest from existing owners. My conclusion is that interest in the CL or TL is not waning. Furthermore, there is an unsatisfied appetite for a successor model. I hope that my assumption, above, is nearer the mark.

    • I think the CL/TL faithful just need a sign from Wetzlar – in the form of white smoke – an upgrade to firmware to fix the focus point problem, or a perspective control as the Q2 received recently would be good enough for people to know they shouldn’t panic sell their equipment.

        • We should not forget that upgrade 4.0 was a mammoth improvement, almost worthy of being a new model by itself. Yes, further improvements would help. However, I fear they would only come with a new model with other major features, such as sensors, upgraded.

    • Thanks for the link to your article. Enjoyed reading it. I’m a new CL owner (less than a week) and absolutely love it. The images are stunning, the build quality is superb and the size is perfect. Works brilliantly with my manual Nikon lenses.

      • Thank you, Peter. Enjoy your CL. Did you buy new? If so, make sure you upgrade the Firmware to version 4.0

  11. I would love to see the Cl and Tl survive, that would justify my purchase of one or other, but don’t think it going happen! As for Leica classes it simply another revenue stream, like when car dealers offer extended warranty. Sales are not what they were so how do we make more money to survive! I say why not!

    • I too have the gut feeling that Leica does not have enough love for the TL/CL in order for them to continue development. I’m actually wondering if I should sell my CL setup now while I can still command a few bucks for it, or simply wait and see if Leica really does have a follow-up on the way.

      • William, if the CL is not working for you, I can understand your temptation. If it is living up to your expectations, then why sell it, regardless of the uncertainty?

        I remember similar arguments when the X-Vario was discontinued. Some owners sold and later regretted it. Even today I received news of one owner of an X-Vario and his wife, both own and use this camera with success. Good used specimens are very hard to find at bargain prices. Good cameras do not suddenly became bad cameras. So do not rush to sell your CL. It could well partner a successor.

        • Hi David. You make a very good point about why bothering to sell if my CL is getting the job done. In fact, I realize now that I needed to hear just this very feedback you’ve just provided – so thank you!

  12. Without IBIS a CL2 doesn’t make much sense IMHO, it would probably be commercial suicide as well, a state of the art newer sensor and EVF would make sense as well given that we are looking at a life cycle of about 4 years. Weather sealing, back button focusing are nice to haves for me personally. I have 4 batteries so not too worried about that but the same battery as the SL and Q would make sense as well. With IBIS and a bigger battery we are probably looking at a slightly beefier CL2 which is OK with me. I am good with it having a bit more heft. For what I use the CL for I am not looking for super fast AF but any improvements done for the SL2-S would obviously be appreciated. Some type of sensor cleaning would also be nice.

  13. I do hope there is news from Leica soon. I already have money put aside for a CL2.
    I don’t crave a lot of new features but if I could pick three , maybe weather sealing, extended battery life and a locked focus point.

  14. My Leica CL has served me well for nearly three years now. I love its simplicity. Having invested good money into various lenses for the APS-C L Mount system, I’d be very interested in picking up a Leica CL2.

    Like others have stated, there are a few new features that I’d love to see implemented in a CL2 including:

    – IBIS
    – Weather sealing
    – Eye-AF and improved AF speed in general (can this simply be addressed with a firmware update and applied to the existing CL?)
    – Improved EVF
    – A flip-screen would be very nice, but won’t be a deal-breaker if not included

    • I absolutely agree about IBIS and weather-sealing. It’s what keeps me with Sony APS-C. I have an X-Vario which I have come to like since dropping the idea that it is in any way a “compact” camera. (See Sony again.) I am afraid there is a sort of arrogance on Leica’s part about “das Wesentliche” which means they will never give us an even mildly adjustable screen. (I noticed that Fuji have added one to their latest iteration of the X100 without adding to the thickness – but then Fuji are known for listening to their customer base.) When you have creaky joints, a flip screen is – almost – a deal-breaker.

    • IBIS would certainly be a very welcome feature. Though I wonder how realistic it will be that this feature will be implemented in a CL2. Thinking of the SL2 and SL2-S many of their features including IBIS are derived from Panasonic. As Panasonic only develops and manufactures Micro 4/3 and full frame cameras I wonder where Leica would source the IBIS parts. Neither Panasonic or Sigma (L mount partners) appear to be keen on entering the APS-C camera market except for Sigma’s lens efforts.

      I would appreciate above all a more reliable and precise focusing system arriving with the CL2 at least akin to the SL2/SL2-S. I am not speaking of a focusing system for action photography as this will be a long way away. But a system that focuses more precisely or accurately when there is fine detail, low contrast or low light. I actually think a CL2 with the same focusing system as the CL would be a deal breaker for me.

  15. Love my CL. Perfect travel camera. Great second body for the SL2. Weathersealed, IBIS, software updated CL2 with a potentially locked focus point would be terrific. I already talked with local Leica dealer about being on the wait list. And I am not the only one! Come on Leica…

  16. I’ve been desperately waiting for a CL2 for some time.
    Mind you Leica also kept me waiting for a digital CL for years and years before they finally got around to it.
    In the meantime I won’t be signing up for Leica’s $600.00 Everything you need to know about how to operate the SL that wasn’t included in the manual that didn’t come in the box! I usually “unlock the possibilities” of my camera by taking pictures not navigating menus.

  17. On another annoying Leica thing for me, I just received an offer from Leica in my email for “SL2 OWNERS WORKSHOP” for $600.00 US. Are they serious?

    “Unlock the possibilities of your SL2 camera with a Leica SL2 Owners Workshop. This introductory course offers a deep dive into the functionality and overall navigation of the powerhouse camera. Learn the various focusing modes available with L-Mount lenses, as well as with Leica M and R lenses, best practices for fast auto and manual focusing, and setting control for specific shooting scenarios, giving you the experience to fully realize your planned shoots and capture unexpected life moments.”

    An introductory course on an SL2 for US $600.00. Are they insane? If any non Leica owners and blogs see this, it will only feed the fire on how overpriced Leicas are. I am disgusted by this. They need to get a grasp on value.

    • That money would probably be better spent on the recent Sigma 24mm DG DN Contemporary lens. It currently retails for $549 at B&H…

  18. I have always wondered about the CL but I have no dealer near me to let me fondle it to see if I want to pay for such an expensive APS-C camera. Plus there was always the issue of the wandering focus point that concerned me. Plus, more importantly, there was a dearth of lenses until Sigma started releasing lenses recently. Plus, I do not want to spend such a high price for a now long in the tooth camera that my have new model appear just after I buy it. I am interested in a more compact camera but I am going to sit on the fence for now.

  19. I believe initially Leica was pretty serious about APS-C but in my opinion that changed when the Q became such a big success. The Q became the entry level camera into the Leica eco system and APS-C became of less strategic importance to Leica. They flushed out what was already in the pipeline and since then nothing anymore… no new lenses or bodies since 2017… The writing is on the wall I am afraid, I probably still expect a CL2 but my guess would be that it stops there. The next step (2-3 years from now at earliest) would then be a compact FF rangefinder styled camera similar to what Sony did with the A7c. You would still be able to use TL-lenses but with less MP.

  20. I have always wanted a Leica from time immemorial. I looked at a Q and decided it was too restrictive. I looked at the SL and decided that owning a “tank” along with heavy lenses was a retrograde step. I would look at an M but these days think I’m too conditioned with autofocus to make it work. I looked at various Fuji’s and found the menu was too messy. Same with Sony. Liked the Olympus m43 cameras but never felt quite right.

    My very helpful AD in Chicago lent me a CL and it seemed like a natural fit. I’ve now “married” the lens system and enjoy using the ones I own. If there was no CL2 I would be disappointed, not because the CL has significant failings, but because it would mean that the TL lens system was destined to become a dead end.

    What would I live to see in a CL2? IBIS, an improved EVF, maybe a little weather sealing, better focus tracking and the same battery as the Q2. And one software request. FIX THE DAMNED WONDERING FOCUS POINT! It should be easy to have the focus point locked off as the default, and if you want it to move you have to instruct it to be able to do so.

    I’m happy to wait patiently for the CL2 as the CL has no significant flaws that require urgent fixing – except the wondering focus point of course!

  21. Certainly the best digital camera I’ve ever owned, and maybe the best since Nikon F photomic days.

  22. I wouldn’t be without my CL despite one or two well documented niggles, and I can’t see any need to exchange it for a CL2 if one ever appears. The growing number of L mount lenses adds to its appeal.
    I would appreciate firmware updates to eliminate those niggles and to keep the camera abreast of the market rather than a new model.

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here