Rumours continue to swirl around the new film camera, which is to be announced in Germany in the second half of next month. Leica Rumors is convinced it will be a faithful reproduction of the original “classic” M6, complete with Leitz red dot, as introduced to the world in 1984. That Leitz roundel lasted for three years before the substitution of the now familiar Leica badge. LR is almost certainly right, but…
Yet, in all the conjecture, it seems no one has thought about the M6 that really ought to be chosen as the template for the newcomer. That’s the M6TTL, introduced in 1998, the year before the M6 “Classic” bit the dust. In my opinion, the TTL is a better camera than the M6, despite a couple of extra millimetres on the height and allegedly slightly inferior battery life.
— Thorsten Overgaard
TTL for flash
Just to clear up a common misunderstanding, the TTL suffix does not refer to metering, for both the M6 and M6TTL have through-the-lens metering. The TTL, in this case, refers to the flash control. Both the M6 and M6TTL are superb mechanical rangefinder cameras, but the refinements of the later TTL version tip the balance.
Chief among the differences is the larger shutter-speed dial, which, like that on modern digital cameras, can be operated more easily with the forefinger. The M6 had a smaller dial, much like that on the current MP, and it is more fiddly to adjust, often requiring a thumb-and-forefinger approach.
And that’s not all. The small speed dial on the M6 works in a back-to-front fashion, making it rather counter-intuitive to operate (especially if you are used to working with a later model).
On the M6TTL, the dial works in the “proper” manner so that the illumination of the exposure triangles in the viewfinder follows the direction of the dial. This sensible orientation of the shutter dial was carried through to the M7 and to all later digital rangefinders.
Lighting the way
Furthermore, the TTL model gains a third LED in the viewfinder exposure guide, a “correct exposure” dot between the two opposing adjustment triangles. So the TTL is easier to use and gives a greater level of information.
You might think it is a small point, but I find the TTL system more intuitive. This central dot is also present on the MP, although, in other respects, the camera is similar to the M6.
The M6TTL (or a reworked modern version) would be my choice over either of the two current models, the MP and the M-A. The M-A is a bare-bones basic camera (though beautifully made and of impeccable quality) without a lightmeter, designed to appeal to the M3 fancying hair-shirt brigade. And the rewind crank is an older design and less easy to use. It’s one for the purists.
The current MP, despite the allure of its brass top plate, suffers from that annoyingly small shutter-speed dial and doesn’t even possess a rewind lever. Instead, you have to struggle with the knurled knob of yesteryear.
Happenstance
I confess to a preference born out of pure happenstance. I don’t own an M6. But back in 2015, I visited the Bièvres Photo Fair with the clear intention of grabbing a good example at the then-going price of around €800. Instead, my eyes lit upon a real beauty, a mint M6TTL, 0.72 magnification, complete with all the original documents and a receipt from a German dealer dated 2000.
The camera was purchased new from Foto Koltzenburg in the Domhof, Osnabrück1, on 19 August 2000. It cost DM 4,648 (less DM 2,200 part-exchange), equivalent to €2,376 in new money.
Inflation
This is, without a doubt, a camera to treasure. I already owned a 2003 MP and had always been frustrated by that tiny shutter-speed dial, so the TTL’s amply proportioned helm came as a revelation. The M6TTL is definitely my preference over the “classic” M6.
Incidentally, as evidence of inflation in Leica film-body prices since 2015, I secured the M6TTL for the equivalent of £800. Now, seven years on, this camera would sell for around £3,000, possibly even a little more if the buyer set their heart on the boxed originality and the precise provenance of the set. Provenance is important to collectors, especially as the decades gather.
Resurrection
Would it be too much to expect the new Leica film camera to be a resurrection of the M6TTL, a thoroughly rounded and usable film camera? That would be the sensible choice, in my humble opinion. Sadly, I suspect Leica Rumors is right: we will get nostalgia in spades, a 1980s M6 makeover complete with fiddlesome shutter-speed dial but with a Leitz red dot to make up for it.
But can we take comfort from LR’s suggestion that it could cost much less than the MP and M-A? What do you think? Would you buy one? What is your favourite Leica film camera? Or have you said goodbye to film for good?
Links
Leica M6 and M6TTL on Macfilos
Munkeat Ho on the Leica M6 v M6TTL
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- A quick internet check shows no current reference to this store in Osnabrück. But Foto Koltzenburg branches are still open in Rheine and Bünde. If anyone has further information, please write to the editor. ↩
I’ve owned my M6 TTL since 2000, when I bought it new. I’ve long considered the TTL’s redesigned shutter speed dial and light meter display to be fairly significant updates. In all honesty, I’m surprised that Leica did not go to the larger dial rotating in alignment with the light meter display when they first came out with the M6. While the smaller dial made sense back when people were fitting external meters designed for the previous M cameras, this was no longer the case once Leica finally built a meter into the camera itself. My guess is that Leica was permanently scarred by the disastrous response to the M5, which was incredibly unfortunate and likely had them second-guessing any and all attempts at improving future M cameras.
Of course by now we all know how things played out with the new M film camera. What Leica ended up doing makes the most sense as it was the path of least resistance from the standpoint using as much of the MP as possible. Even if they could have released a new film camera at a much lower price point than their existing offerings, Leica would have been foolish to do so as this would have been a big setback to their presence as a lifestyle brand (the very thing that saved them as a company). As much as I enjoy my M6, I’m personally much more interested to see how the Ricoh/Pentax story plays out as they explore the possibility of introducing some new film cameras of their own. This has the potential to make a much larger impact on the film community as a whole. I’m hoping that they are successful.
The bigger question though is what happens with the film community if Kodak as rumored were to raise its prices with 40%. Would the film community survive that?
R 7 and the last versions of the R Elmarit 35mm and 90mm, cheap and really good!
I mean of course “good bodies”
However good the M7 may be estimates are that it will be finally available again in the US by 2027; and this ti fill back orders. A new film camera – probably in a limited edition will be either sold out immediately or never available. So the second hand market for the M6 and M6 TTL will still be needed for anyone who wants to work with Leica with film. My own preference is for the R series – great lenses and good baadies( very cheap right now) and the Leica/Minolta CL with M lenses. I have both and love them – though I have to admit to grabbing the Q2 as I go out the door in a hurry…. I’m with Slow Driver with my R7 and Minolta CLE.
I own an M6 TTL and an M7 as well. I love the fact that all the dials turn in the same direction, even though the M6 TTL is locked centrally. I got them at fairly good prices when it seemed that film would disappear over night. Which evidently hasn’t happened. They both have required some maintenance, the M7 and I crashed when a wild bus driver decided to brake unexpectedly hard, the M6 had some lightmeter issues. For both I got a very convenient finder upgrade, getting rid of the flare. Since then used prices have skyrocketed. But I’m never tempted to sell, which would leave me cameraless.
Following the advice “stick to one camera and you will handle it with eyes closed” I switch from these two to the digital M very smoothly. I focus on the pictures and the sense they make and love these “sisters”, which looked vintage already when they came out on the market over 20 years ago.
That’s a great advice. Also the idea of taking photographs with the eyes closed. Bravo
The “uh fiddly” small dial was designed (originally) so that the coupled meter could be used easily. The M6 kept the form factor as to right way around, the speed dial on the M1-2-3-4-4/2/4/P MD MDa MD2 all turn the sea direction of the original M6, the TTL is annoyingly backwards
Thanks, Mark. It seems the TTL carried the “new” direction to the M7, M8 and all subsequent rangefinders. But I agree it would have been confusing at first.
Do not agree. The M/A is a joy to use. Each to their own.
Agreed. That’s the beauty of more choice. I can well see the purist attraction of the M-A.
A simple reissue of the M6 would be most disappointing. Even with new meter electronics. It would show near zero commitment to film.
A M6 with a new meter, and an updated shutter would be interesting.
A M7 with all the bells & whistles of the M11 (as far as that could be translated to a film camera) would probably prompt a purchase by me.
I tend to agree, Hank. The M7 is a beautiful camera and much underrated possibly because if its appetite for batteries. But is a perfect complement to a typical digital camera such as the M11. Going between the two is seamless.
We’ve all become very used to carrying a spare battery around. The new M could have a rechargeable battery pack, which would make a lot of sense.
So, an M7 with different kind of battery (it’s just awful, in the case you still find the two instead of four units), and extended mechanical speeds.
Wondering why people would spend about 5K in it (second hand sell for about nearly 4K). Crazy
Fascinating speculation – I don’t know the answer, so I can speculate that it will be an M6 Classic . . . at least on the outside, but the internals can’t be original, so I would expect that they would take the opportunity to make improvements (why wouldn’t they?!).
This cannot be made out of spares, so I would speculate that as they have to make a new production line it will not be a limited edition.
As for speculation that it’ll be cheaper . . . . there’s always that speculation, and it’s never been true in the past!
all the best
Jono
Thanks, Jonathan. I am never knowingly under-speculated. The point you make about updating the internals is logical. Presumably, the MP internals (with the improved exposure display) would be a good fit. But here I am, speculating again.
Did you see the comment from Francois (below) where he suggests a remake of the M7 would have been a better bet? Perhaps they should never have discontinued the M7, but you will know about this better than any of us.
Mike
I’ll go with Jono on the possibility of new electronics. The M6 is one of the most common Leica film cameras on the second hand market. The value of used M6s has doubled or trebled in the past 10 years. I suspect that Leica will fix the ‘wrong way’ arrows and add a dot for correct exposure. I cannot see Leica getting into the film market, unless they do a rebadging exercise which is the case with some film ‘brands’ these days. Back in the old days, Leica was happy to work with companies such as Agfa. I picked up a nice vintage 1930s Agfa-Leitz film cassette, in its original aluminium container, at the Leica Society AGM in Buxton last April. Which brings another thought. Could bulk film make a comeback in the upcoming era of austerity? I know some people who are still using bulk film.
This camera won’t be for me, as I already have a large number of film Leicas. If one is not working, I just pick up another one.
William
Whatever it turns out to be, I just think it’s a wonderful thing that in 2022 Leica still cares enough to manufacture a new film M camera.Who else?
I bought my M6 TTL 0.85 in December 1999, as a millennium present to myself – it seemed unlikely even close family and friends were going to be so generous! It was (and is) everything I hoped it would be, and more besides, though doesn’t get as much exercise these days as it needs and deserves – blame availability of film as the main reason for that (at one point, it seemed to be easing, but nowadays it’s even tighter, maybe as a result of exchange rates and other mysteries). With Fuji Provia now having broken the £20 barrier in the UK, it automatically puts itself into the ‘very special occasion’ category, unless someone else is paying – yes, cheaper negative film (colour or B&W) would help maintain the camera’s exercise regime but my heart suggests only slide film does it justice, even with its contemporary glass. And sorry, but given Leica’s ambitious pricing policies, I don’t reckon their entry into the film supply business would do anything to help the situation.
In terms of usability, I agree that the TTL is a big step forward from the original M6 – in fact, I’d always understood the later camera’s battery life was an improvement over the original’s, due to the ‘Off’ position on the shutter speed dial actually turning off the electronics rather than just putting them into limbo – but it’s quite possible I’ve ‘mis-remembered’! Having the middle blob in the TTL’s exposure read-out is certainly an advantage – but dare I perversely add that after my first M (an early M2 with MC meter), I actually found the later camera slower to use, as the intrusive viewfinder display meant you were forever chasing the blob by tweaking the exposure up o down a gnat’s, rather than taking a reading at the start of your session then using your inbuilt personal exposure meter to adjust up or down as necessary. I looked in vain for a control to turn down the brightness of the display – maybe there’s now scope to add one?
I have two chrome M6TTLs, (0.85x versions) and I decided to hang on to them even though I’m more often using an SL2s these days with my M lenses. I bought them for a good price shortly before they were discontinued. Great cameras. I recently had Leica check the shutter speeds. They are a little out at 1/500 and 1/1000 sec. but I rarely use those speeds anyway and since I’m no longer using slide film I just compensate with the ISO dial.When I want to go old school and slow down I still enjoy using them sometimes.The feel and sound of the shutter mechanism is superb.
I still say, if Leica wants to keep their film range of cameras going in the future, the best way to support interest and demand would be to manufacture an own brand film. Yes it would take investment, but they are quite capable of doing that. Leitz film anyone? I would love it if it could be a color film but I’d settle for black and white.
Hi Stephen,
I was just reading your comments about Leica’s proposed new M film camera. In the last part of partial paragraph quote “If Leica wants to keep their film range of cameras going in he future, they should manufacture their own film.” I totally agree 100% and this is something that I have been thinking about prior to reading your just-now comment.
I have thought about sending them an email in regards to this. Not only that, but to design and manufacture a desktop combination film/scanner device for E6, C41, and b&w film processing and digitization. The device will have built-in Leica high quality lens elements with SD card slots for transfer into digital image (24-60 megapixels). It will have slots for inserting the film canisters and film chemicals cartridges (eliminates film mixing mess). I am going to stop right here on this. I can go on and on. What are your respond thoughts on this?
On the subject of the new film camera, if it is indeed a (limited?) reissue of the M6 Classic I kind of fail to see the point. I personally would love a new Leica CM point & shoot type of camera with modern day autofocus. The Leica CM (w/ 40mm lens) sells for crazy money nowadays on eBay.
Another idea is making an already old camera, for instance with a cool 😎 serial number at a price of six or seven cero $. This way they have more benefits just by making one ☝️. Goood for these crisis times
PD If making the new (old) model Msix, they can make just 6, becoming then truly affordable in comparison
I bought a Leica R6.2 and a Leica R8 recently. I considered Leica M, Leica R and Nikon F. I am still tempted by Nikon but I don’t have any glass (yet). I did already have both M and R glass but I gravitated towards the R mainly because of 1) cost 2) 1/1000s shutter speed limit of the M 3) closer minimum focus distance R glass. The M can be bought new (which is a big advantage) but it is simply never available in the US and the current exchange rate makes it about $1K more expensive than in Europe (the M11 is now $2K more expensive than in Europe…).
Surely when stocks are depleting, new arrivals to the US will be much cheaper. It’s just a matter of waiting, I think.
Leica added the Trump tax (10% across the board) but they never decreased their prices when Biden got rid of it, instead they frantically continued with their yearly price increases, last year even two, add the current exchange rate to that and you get a complete mess which Leica should urgently address.
It will be interesting to see what Leica does for a new film camera.
But for me, the MP will probably always be the best.
Mike
My guess would be the M6TTL, since Leica discontinued the M6 because Seiko wanted to quit making the shutter mechanism. So regardless of the features I will guess the shutter used will be what is currently available.
PaulB
What I didn’t really mention was that the new camera could include the refinements of the MP rather than going right back to 1980s-type internals.
I think this question is link to what leica was able to invest in term of new RD and factory capability in Portugal. The M7 was clearly the pinacle of the Leica film camera with a far more precise shutter who did not depend on regular CLA, a clearer +Telemeter, a fantastic mode A wich is still in all new M digital Leica. The body quality was improved.
So if Leica has balls they will relauch the M7-2, with magnesium, and a different battery . Alas the MP, M-A was just finishing old parts with nearly no RD and I am affraid these new M6 will be rebadge MP with the different crank on the side, no more…and a lot of blabla to compensate NO INVESTMENT.
I haD 20 Ms, nearly all of , sold all digital and I keep a black M—a (my second) as my ultimate M, but I will consider a new M7-2 for sure as it is easier with it to do better picture with the A mode.
I’d second that, an update to the M7 would be real progress. With full mechanical fall-back would be nice but not essential. As well as the A mode, some faster shutter speeds would be a bonus but not sure how feasible that would be.
With film not being so readily available these days, I only tend buy what I can get hold of, which is usually ASA400 Portra or HP5+. Since using the M11 and the hybrid shutter, a whole new world of rangefinder potential has opened up with fast glass which I enjoy without the need for ND filters. Would be nice to get more use out of fast glass in daylight hours on a film camera. Maybe too much to ask 🙂
Francois, I agree with you on the M7. I just didn’t mention it because I know it wouldn’t be Leica’s choice. The M7 is an excellent camera and, as you say, is the pinnacle of the film range. I have one myself and find that it so near to the feel and operation of, say, the M10 and M11. Great camera, but not for resurrecting, I think.